How Marketing Has Changed - Digital Fuel Podcast Episode 1

26 min read
25-Jul-2019 1:03:00 PM


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Podcast Transcript

Kevin: Hello and welcome everybody to the inaugural issue of Digital Fuel podcast with Kevin and Matt. Matt, how are you doing today?
Matt: I'm good. I really enjoyed how awkward and uncomfortable you were introducing that.
Kevin: Oh yes. Super awkward, super uncomfortable, but you know what? We're going to be here for a while. We're going to do this a lot of times, we're going to get better at it over the course of time here. So Matt, well hey, this is cool. This is our first episode doing this, we're got some plans. We've got some things that we want to talk about, all good stuff, but I thought, hey, let's start off by introducing ourselves, telling the people out there listening to us a little bit about us and why we started this. So why don't you take us off and tell us about yourself and about your company?
Matt: Cool. My name is Matt Geraghty of I a buzzword free, common sense, digital marketer helping small and medium sized businesses across Ontario, Canada, the States, grow their businesses online with things like ads, email, search engine, social media, all that kind of fun stuff.
Matt: I think the thing that sets me apart from other agencies very specifically is that all the relationships that I have with the people I work with and all of my engagements are custom, and strategies are custom towards the people that I'm actually working with. I'm never trying to set people up down a specific path based on what's going to be best for me and it's always trying to work with the people and the businesses to find out what can I actually do for them and benefit them.
Kevin: Very cool. Very cool. For me, my name's Kevin D'Arcy, I'm the owner of a company called ThinkFuel Marketing. and we help people when your sales team is struggling to get time on a prospect's calendar, we make that happen and we do that through a variety of digital and inbound marketing methodologies, very similar to what Matt talked about, SEO ads, content creation and marketing automation as well. I promise for everybody out there, this is the the most you're ever going to hear about our company's particular, that's not this podcast is about. Really, we wanted to start this podcast because, well I mean two reasons, right? One, me and Matt, we both have a very strong desire and drive to help people, give back and help as our businesses out there grow.
Kevin: Selfishly, we're doing this to create some more exposure, some more content for our own sites and our own marketing initiatives and if somewhere down the line we work with any of you guys out there, that's awesome. Did I capture that for you Matt, or anything you want to add?
Matt: Yeah, no, I think that's super fair. We talk to people all the time and try to explain them being like as diverse as possible with the content that they're producing. I know we've got awesome websites that people can check out. You put out a lot more content than I do. I do a lot of social media stuff. This is just another channel for us to be able to interact with people and like you said, hopefully help some businesses and maybe provide some insight into what we do personally and professionally and also how can we actually help these people with some sort of insight through all these ramblings and nonsense.
Kevin: Absolutely. Absolutely. So Matt, before we jump into the topic of our first podcast, do you want to explain to everybody here a little bit about how you and I first met and got connected?
Matt: Yeah, sure. So a couple of years ago, like four or five years ago, I was working at one of Canada's largest search agencies. I was an account manager there overseeing anywhere from 30 to 40 different companies, SEO, PPC, social content, all those kind of buzzwords, all the different types of marketing strategies. One of those accounts fortunately, or unfortunately, was the company you were working for. Yeah, I don't know much more what to say other than that. It just was funny how, I guess we got hooked up through that account manager and then a couple months after I left there got the random invite to start talking to you about some of this stuff. I'm kind of curious what made you reach out to me after we stopped collaborating together, when I was no longer at that agency.
Kevin: Yeah, absolutely, and I think that ties in really well with the overall theme of this podcast and our idea that we want to be open and transparent and make a lot of this digital marketing stuff easier for people to understand. Not to pat Matt on the back, because I hate when I do this and he'd never let me live it down but you know Matt is one of the good marketing people out there. So prior to starting ThinkFuel, I was actually a part owner in a midsize technology company. I implemented an inbound digital marketing approach for them that really revolutionized how they were doing things. We started it fairly early, probably around 2003, was when we first started getting into it and during that time we would partner with other agencies and marketing companies out there to help supplement our own marketing team in areas that we could use some help.
Kevin: We went through slew of of different people and different companies. We had ones that we outgrew. We were thinking farther ahead. We were doing more research than they were and we were always coming to them telling them what to do next. We had another one and I love telling this story because it's probably the bravest person I think I might've ever met, not in a good way this time, but they were not performing the best for us. I told them I needed a breakdown of how our budget was being spent, where it was being spent, how people were spending time and he had the nerve to look me right in the face the time and say, "Kevin, you know it's a bunch of guys and basements pounding away on keyboards. You don't need to worry about this stuff." I fired that guy right there on the spot.
Kevin: Fortunately, we came across the company that Matt worked for at the time, we were partnered up with Matt and he was somebody who thought a lot like we did at that company, of doing things the right way, doing things properly, taking our time, having a methodical approach, being open and honest with us. From a business owner's perspective that was really important for us where we were at.
Kevin: A few years after that, I got to a point where I sold off my share of that technology company and chased what I really love doing, which is digital marketing and helping other B to B technology companies grow their business as well and that's when I started ThinkFuel. Of course I want to surround myself with good people, smart people and that's why I reached out to Matt.
Matt: That's cool. I would really love to hear more about how, what a great account manager I was, if you wanted to give me some more detail, that'd be great.
Kevin: You know what? Unfortunately we're running out of time in this first segment, our introductions so we're going to have to move on, but offline definitely I'll give you another pat on the back.
Matt: I do have a question for you because I feel like I've not asked you this enough previously. When do you actually think you had a passion for digital marketing? You have mentioned that again, you had that passion, you had that interest. When did that come about?
Kevin: You know what? It was really kind of a slow growth for me. It was something that ... Well originally, when I started implementing that plan at the old company it was because I hated the idea of doing cold calling, so I was looking for a way to avoid doing that and I thought before you know the likes of big names like your HubSpots, Marketos, all those other people in the world started using the term inbound, we were doing inbound. My whole concept was I want people to pick up the phone and call us. It wasn't all digital, there was some traditional offline stuff as well but I think that the moment that it really resonated for me was I went on a sales call for somebody who had been on our website, saw our products, and wanted me to come out and talk to them.
Kevin: Before we sat down they said, "Oh, hold on, I have to grab your file." I said, "This is the first time we're meeting. What do you mean my file?"
Kevin: No word of a lie, she came out with a file folder that was about three quarters of an inch thick and it was about three years worth of all the marketing materials, pages from our website, flyers, brochures, postcards, everything that had gone out to this person to nurture them over this time period. She had kept every single one of those and she loved them, she thought they were great and that was the whole reason that we got into this account in the first place. That's when it really kind of clicked for me. I really enjoyed it and I think that was kind of the kicking off point there.
Matt: That's interesting. I was actually just speaking with a group of people yesterday about traditional versus digital marketing and I always like to summarize it at the end with, the prospect is armed with so much more information now than they had when traditional marketing was really all that there was. So with digital, with inbound, the prospect or the person you're talking to that you want to work with, they know so much more about you than when it used to be just strict, like billboard, direct mail, newspaper, radio and all that stuff. The sales process back then started with like, "Hey, what is it that you do?" So the first conversation they'd have it with you, or you with them, would have been like, "Hey Kevin, what is inbound marketing?" That's a conversation we never ever, ever have anymore because everyone already knows about that by the time they get to us.
Matt: They're at this point, they understand what inbound is. They understand probably some of the tactic to very high level. They've looked at your competition a bunch. They probably know more about you than they definitely did like five to 10 years ago. Now I always felt like you're mostly answering questions specifically about, okay, here's your process and it's a lot about building rapport.
Kevin: Yeah. I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, I've got a couple selling years extra experience on you and I remember when I first started selling, it wasn't that way. We as salespeople, we controlled that flow of information. So if marketing department made up a nice glossy brochure, it was in our discretion of whether or not we would pull that brochure out and show it to a customer. If we didn't like it, if we didn't think it was good content, if we didn't think it was the right time, or the right stage, we controlled that flow. If they wanted hear anything from us, if they wanted to learn anything about what we did, they had to listen to that speech.
Kevin: That's where those old sales methodologies that are outdated now, like spin selling and solution selling, that's why they worked back then and they don't work now, is that those all methodologies were based around the idea that I'm going to ask you a hundred really painful questions that you're going to also have to answer for another three vendors who walk in this door and the only reason you're motivated to answer them is because at the end I'm going to give you information you need, right?
Matt: Right.
Kevin: Now, we don't need to do that. People don't need to go through that spin process or those thousands of questions. They can go online, they can find the information they want. They're better informed than they ever were before.
Matt: Yeah, For sure. Did you find other agencies would pull what that guy pulled on you before you fired him on the spot? Like the, don't look behind the curtain situation?
Kevin: Yeah. It was always this kind of Wizard of Oz approach. A lot of the times people didn't want you to know how, or where, or why your budget was being spent. They were just happy to take a couple thousand dollars from you every month and as long as they were delivering a handful of quote unquote "leads," they would use as an argument back, Well see, we're working for you, we got these leads." It felt very one-sided back then and that was a very common thing, which really I think is a good segue, Matt into really what we decided to do for our first topic today, which is what we see of that state of digital marketing today.
Kevin: I think a lot of the times in the past, like you just alluded to, people would make marketing sound more overwhelming, more complicated, more involved than it really needed to be. I know you've got a lot of thoughts on this.
Matt: Yeah, and I think it's something that I talk a lot about with the people in businesses that I'm working with, where marketing and digital marketing very specifically because it can sound so technical, it seems very overwhelming. There are hundreds of different tactics to employ, but it really isn't that complex. Honestly, I'm not sure if it was more agencies or blogs are the reason why that it's become ... or seems so complex and overwhelming. There's just so many resources out there. You go and Google something about getting found online and you're going to find 2000 different articles, 1000 to do it one way, the other thousand to do another way and they're all adamant that this is the best way and it's just ... it can be too much.
Matt: I think people start to overthink it. I think advertisers and marketers overthink it in a lot of ways, agencies overthink it because again, there's just so much out there. It definitely is overwhelming, but it doesn't need to be so complex. Something that comes up a lot in conversation and I've been to different presentations and people have talked about social media platforms and like, "Oh there's all these social media platforms out there and which ones should I use?" Then you'll hear, "Who's your client?" Or, "Where is your audience?" It just becomes noise and it's like just push it all aside. Don't overthink it. The social media platforms are free, get on Facebook, get on Instagram, get on Twitter, get on LinkedIn. Then start to think about it from there, like is Pinterest worthwhile? If you hesitate, and you think that it's worthwhile, get on Pinterest, it'll take you not even 20 minutes to sign up. That's even really, really, really stretching it.
Matt: I just find that sometimes we can get so convoluted with these thoughts where a lot of this stuff is free, it's all accessible to us and it's just, I don't know why we're overthinking a lot of this stuff. It's just like, jump in and just see what happens.
Kevin: Matt, what about the idea though that if you're going to be on these platforms, you've got to be on these platforms, you've got to invest the time, effort into being seen and sharing content and if people are struggling to get a post on LinkedIn once a week, how are they going to do it across five or six social platforms? Any ideas?
Matt: Yeah, for sure. So when you're doing content for one platform, it can be ... What's the word? Not eligible, but you can use that piece of content across every platform you're going to use. So you have one idea that can go across Facebook and go across Instagram, it can go across LinkedIn, et cetera. Don't think that you have to do one specific for Facebook versus Linkedin, et cetera. Take that content and spread it across.
Matt: Now it sounds like a lot of work, but there's also a lot of tools and free tools out there, like is one where they have a free version where you can add your social media platforms, you can have a few of them and then throughout the month you can pre-schedule all your stuff. So even if it's once a week you come up with something, I think that's fine.
Matt: A worst case scenario, honestly do it once every three months. I think it does look silly when you have platforms that are there and they're stagnant in someone's like, "Okay, I'm going to go check this company out," and they hop on Instagram and they've had a post from 2016, is the last one. That looks, I'm not going to say unprofessional, it looks like that company's just lost their way. Maybe they're not even in business anymore. They don't want to leave that in people's minds also but even if you're putting something on there once every three months, once a month, once a week would be awesome. I think something is better than nothing in those cases, you know?
Kevin: Oh absolutely. That makes sense. You bring up a good point there about the different tools that are out there, and a lot of times people feel that the messaging has to be completely different across the different platforms. If you want to get really advanced and complex, you can do that type of thing but as a good starting point, like Matt said, if you're going to share a blog article, if you're going to share pictures from a company picnic or things like that, there's no reason that you can't share those across all the different platforms.
Kevin: So Matt, one of the things that we wanted to talk about today was this overwhelming feeling that a lot of people get when it comes to digital marketing. They feel that there so much to do out there, "I've got a blog, I've got to be on social, I've got to do SEO, I've got to do ads, I've got to do authority building, back links," all this different types of tools and methodologies for doing this stuff. I think we're both of the same opinion that for a lot of people it's about getting back to the basics. It's about going back to square one and just starting off with best practices for general web marketing and being found. So, doing your basic on-page changes for the keywords that you want to rank for, posting a couple of blogs that are going to attract new visitors as well as content that people are going to want to share. So what do you find typically, how do you approach this with customers?
Matt: My approach is very custom, like I described. I've worked at agencies again before where they have packages, which I hate, I despise it, I'll never have a package, where it's a one size fits all. Every conversation I have is going to be custom to again that person and that business. So I'm going to actually hear about what's your business, what's worked in the past, what hasn't worked in the past, who you trying to reach, what are your goals? All that kind of stuff. Then start to figure out what's the best way to actually approach that kind of stuff. That's working with me of course but even if we were talking about people trying to do it on their own and yeah, it's overwhelming and you get online and you're just running off a whole bunch of stuff that I think might even be overwhelming to people.
Matt: Like you said, it's stuff like SEO and PPC and all this kind of stuff, but strip all that stuff down and even go even further back to basics. So talking about just your everyday type of marketing that even you can do on your own, like the people listening. Whether they think that their marketers are not talking about their business is something every business owner can do, whether they think they can or not. That's all about just getting some of their ideas out on paper, slash in a document online, at this point.
Matt: So writing a blog every week, even if it takes you one hour, sit down, put a timer on your phone and write about a topic for an hour. At the end of that hour just go and post it online, post it on your website. If you don't have a website, post it on Facebook, post it somewhere, there's free blog platforms out there that you can post.
Matt: Push that out for people. Even if also at that point now, you've got your one blog a week on social, it'll take you maybe 30 minutes to do two more individual social posts. Again, that's all free. That's just your time, 30 minutes, another hour to do the blog, you've got two hours. Then also at that point, you're just going out there and trying to reach out to some of your other contacts. Strip it down another level where it's like, okay, how am I going to get business? Marketing 101, go to your contacts. See when's the last time you spoke to someone, email them, email them an update, email them your blog, email them like, "Hey, just listening to some ding dong talking about digital marketing for an hour. I don't know what the heck he was talking about, but this is kind of interesting to you maybe?"
Matt: Just reach out to your contacts, just basic marketing stuff. Take another step back and making sure that you're refining your elevator pitch or positioning statement, so you can quickly in conversation be able market your brand. I talk to a lot of business owners, new business owners, hobby businesses that are trying to get somewhere. They don't even have business cards. So they're in line at the grocery store with someone, they have a conversation, tell them about their business and then they're like, "Oh yeah, I don't have anything to tell you where to go, now, I'm just going to write down my name on a receipt and maybe you can follow me later."
Matt: Get business cards, go online. Vistaprint is the one that everyone knows. There's a company out there called, you can get business cards for as low as $21.99. Look at all of your colleagues, friends and family from a marketing perspective. It sounds silly, this is just really old traditional marketing. Have a list of people that you are going to be able to reach out to, that might be interested in your services or can help you in some way. I ran into a situation a number of months ago where we were told, when I was working elsewhere, that 40% of us were going to be laid off. I went home that day and I wrote a list on a notepad top to bottom, like three columns across, of every single person that I knew in business, essentially, that I could provide some value to. Whether they were an agency owner, Kevin was on that list, or if I could be of freelance help, if I could do all these different things.
Matt: Then the first day of my business on my own, I called every single one of those people and I told them what I was doing. I reached out to all of those people and basically had good conversations with all of them. They were all excited and happy for me. All the typical like, "Hey, yeah, best of luck and all that kind of stuff." Then I continued to have a couple of sales conversations with 75% of those people.
Matt: What I'm trying to get at though is again, old school type marketing, where it's like, you have all these resources around you and let's remember what we're trying to do with them. Make money for ourselves, make money for our business, et cetera, et cetera. Utilize them one way or another.
Kevin: Very cool. I wonder how high I was on that list. I'm assuming I was the first name, although you said you called everyone. I don't remember getting a call, but that's all right. We'll talk about that another time. But no, you brought up an interesting point there Matt, and I think that's one area where both of us can bring a lot of value to this podcast because we do work with very different customer bases between the two of us. Like you said, a lot of the people you deal with, well not a lot, but some of them, they may not have a website, or it may not be a very good website and they might not have business cards or an elevator pitch.
Kevin: In the B to B space that I'm typically working with, I think people are a little bit more mature when it comes to that. They've been doing it longer, they understand the process. I think a lot of that's driven by the fact that their salespeople and their sales teams tend to be larger and more expensive. Therefore having those people sit down and dial for dollars, call through lists of names, is not a very efficient or financially sound method for them.
Kevin: So you're absolutely right. There's a lot of basics with marketing and traditional things that people still have to do but then as you grow and scale, there's also a lot of easy to use but very efficient tools out there for helping you scale better as well. What you'll notice, is that as you start to get busier and busier, people will run out of time on their calendar. There's the only thing that we can't make more of is time. Having tools like automation and things like that in place in your marketing programs as you scale can be really helpful because they say that on average, the deal goes ... If you get a lead in through your website, chances are that those people who sent you that lead are talking to a few of your competitors as well. They say that on average, that that that deal goes to the first company, that responds, but your salespeople are busy. They're in meetings, they're on calls, they're doing other things and they can't always just snap to it and get right back to people really quickly.
Kevin: That's where we can use some things like automation to kickstart that process so we're getting back to people in a really quick manner, talking about next steps, pushing them to book time on our calendars and things like that. All without the sales rep having to lift a finger. So marketing can be really scalable depending on where you're at and how you're growing.
Matt: Yeah, sometimes I find the word automation can scare people though, they lose control, not control, but sometimes automation seems fake. Have you encountered conversations that about not being able to maybe customize stuff in certain situations?
Kevin: Yeah, absolutely. I mean that's one of the things people come up with is they say, "Well, if we're just sending out an automated email after somebody fills out a form, or downloads an ebook, or something, it sounds fake, it comes across as being exactly what it is, an automated message that comes out." So one of the ways that we tackle that is, especially if you think of an inbound lead, somebody who's filled out a form saying, "Hey, I want to get a demo. I want somebody to call me, contact me," whatever. You really don't have a whole lot more, depending on what questions you ask them on their forms, but you don't really have a whole lot more information on them yet than name, company, where they work, things like that and maybe what they're interested in.
Kevin: So what we end up doing to make those automated replies sound more human, more meaningful, is that we'll actually go and have the sales rep write a message for us as if, pretend you just got this lead in, how would you respond? What would you say to the customer in an email? We take their own words and we create those automated emails out of them. That way it sounds more natural. It sounds as if somebody wrote it as opposed to that generic. "Thanks for contacting company ABC. One of our representatives will get back in touch with you quickly." Instead it's saying, "Hey, Matt, thanks for visiting our website and for your interest in ... "and we can automatically put in whatever they were interested in. "Love to schedule a time to talk with you more about that. Below is a link to my calendar. Feel free to book anytime that works for you." All right? So nice, easy, to the point. Talks about next steps and again, it's personalized to that person receiving it.
Matt: Yeah, and you've worked at lot with HubSpot. I've worked a little bit with HubSpot, a tiny bit with Salesforce for instance, but actually a lot more with HubSpot, and that was the thing that always concerned me when I was first using it was like, oh this is going to seem fake or unnatural. But I've always been amazed by the amount of ways you can personalize things, whether it's through the software that provides it to you, but just in general, even with a lot of stuff you're talking about, a lot of it is just template-based, which is still giving you the ability to provide a lot of personalization, whether it's personal notes, making personal comments on conversations you've had previously. Still just a way to make things more efficient and effective. I've always found the not being able to customize things in automation a bit of a myth.
Kevin: Yeah, absolutely. The days of the old mail merge from word processors and things like that is, when you're doing that on the digital side, we can pull so much more information about who they are and what they are looking at, areas of interest, we can really custom tailor it. It's one of those things too, and I don't mean this to come across saying that people are unaware or uneducated, but the thing is, is that I still get amazed by how many people ... I have to keep reminding myself that these people don't deal with it on a day to day basis like us but if you look at something like retargeting or remarketing ads, how many people still don't understand how that concept works. That you looked at something on a big box store website and for the next 30 days that ad follows you around for exactly what you were looking at on that store. A lot of people don't understand how that came to be and how they know they were interested in that.
Kevin: I find the same thing with automation. If you do it right, if you add some personalization to it, you'll be surprised how infrequently people feel that this is just an automated message that gets kicked off them.
Matt: Yeah, no, that's interesting and just made me think about remarketing, retargeting stuff, have conversations with a lot of people that are always hesitant about it and they're like, "That's weird." Or, "It makes me uncomfortable." I'm always like, this is a marketing tool that is available to us and it is effective. Why would we not go ahead and use it? I remember the first time my old boss and now mentor was explaining a lot of the social media stuff to me and things that we could do with social media, remarketing, retargeting, and getting in front of all these people. Apparently I'm just sitting there like wide-eyed, mouth on the desk type thing. He said, "You, as a business owner and a marketer, either embrace this stuff, you run with it, you use this powerful tool to our advantage in ways that we can help people grow their business, or I quit right now and I run up north and put a tinfoil hat on my head."
Matt: It's just sort of the nature of where we are now and I still have this conversation with people and I think even originally when I found out about how a lot of this digital stuff works, maybe I was taken back by it. I've kind of over the years become immune to it in the sense of like, well this is just the way it is. I'm not going to be able to fight it, can't fight the machine but also personally now, truly in the last few years I've kind of come to appreciate it personally. As in, I would rather see ads that are geared specific towards me, versus ads about things that are just irrelevant to me.
Matt: Every day where I live, I drive around the corner and there's a Dairy Queen billboard by my house and my wife is lactose intolerant. That ad is useless for me, we're not getting ice cream. I should not be seeing those types of ads. I just think from like a digital perspective, I like that I'm seeing ads that are specifically tailored to my interests, places I've been online and what are things, like our comparables and all those kinds of things, to be honest.
Kevin: Hey Matt, I'm going to call you out on your buzzword-free marketing slogan here. Just for people who are listening that maybe aren't familiar with it, why don't you give us a little rundown? 30 seconds or less what are retargeting, remarketing ads?
Matt: Yeah, no, that's my fault because you said it and I just ran with it and I should have let you facilitate, just joking. The remarketing, retargeting stuff is anytime someone is on our website, we're able to follow them around on other websites with an ad. That's the simplest way to put it without getting even more into the weeds. So if you've been to a shoe store online and then left that site and you're going on websites you're on probably every single day, or you're on like a social media platform, you will probably see an ad for that shoe store following you around.
Matt: It's a great way to keep your business top of mind if and when it comes time for that person to purchase from us. Just because people are looking at shoes online right now, it doesn't mean they're actually going to purchase them. They're probably going to leave checkout competitors and then later on just kind of blow off some steam, go across the Internet and then it'll be good for you guys to stay top of mind with your actual ad of like, "Hey, come back to our website, buy our shoes," or of course whatever it is you're actually trying to sell.
Kevin: Very cool. Well, I think we're getting kind of up against our timeline here for today, but in closing here, Matt, what do you think is the biggest takeaway from today's session that you want listeners to remember?
Matt: I should've been paying more attention to the conversation we were having. I think kind of jumping on with the, it can be overwhelming thing. There's still old school quote "digital strategies" that work from an SEO perspective. When we talk about getting found on search engines and Google, there's all of these new buzzwords that of course I'm going to stay away from, but there's again, tried and true ways that we still can rank websites online and we don't need to get bogged down with all the overwhelming hundreds of different variables that are out there to rank websites online. There's a way to ... I can't think of the term, but there's a way to not get bogged down with all the nonsense and the weight of all of these different strategies and we try to find our way through that and it's not as hard as it needs to be.
Kevin: Awesome. I think from my perspective is that, as you start to grow your business through digital marketing and other means and you need to expand your operations, maybe that means hiring more people or investing in the infrastructure is that, keep in mind that there's a lot of tools out there like Hootsuite that Matt mentioned earlier, HubSpot that we talked about, that can help streamline some of those operations so that instead of maybe more people, you just need tools that can make the people you have more efficient in what they're doing, so that you can do more with less.
Kevin: I know we have one customer where just through automation and proper inbound marketing, we took their average annual revenue per rep from about $750,000 each per year to $2.2 million, just because we made it ... took a lot of the manual labor off of their plates. So that would be my 2 cents coming out of today.
Kevin: We're going to be talking about a lot more. Today's podcast was really just an introduction to Matt and myself, why we started this, where we see that digital landscape. If you have ideas or suggestions, we're always going to love to hear them from you, but we're going to come up with some really great topics, hopefully put these out on a regular basis for you guys to enjoy. Anything you want to say before we sign off, Matt?
Matt: No, I guess shameless plug for the both of us. Check out both of our websites whenever you get a chance, and after you've checked out my better site, go check out an inferior one, and just tell us what you think.
Kevin: Perfect. Well, we appreciate everyone listening today. Matt, thanks again for your time and we look forward to talking with you again soon.
Matt: Thanks, buddy. Toodaloo.
Kevin: Toodaloo.

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